Comic for Sunday, January 25 2015

[DariusL]

Holy crap y'all are weird. I expected the posts following this comic to be about "What happened in Maren's past?" and "what exactly is/was the extent of Maren and Red's relationship" and "what does Red want it to be?". Then I got to this thread and everyone is freaking out about a Raine x Maren ship. I gotta say, I read that sentence and it didn't phase me one bit. Not one bit. Women comment on the attractiveness of other women ALL THE TIME. Does not signify any actual attraction to the person. As for why she's playing with her hair in the same panel? Since her secret was revealed, in maybe half the panels where she's not chatting with just Sythe (cuz Sythe isn't going to judge her for what she is) she is making some sort of similar, nervous gesture. She is a nervous person, that's just who she is. Honestly I hope she spends more time with Sythe because at least she's comfortable around him.

Edit: Raine x Maren ship: don't see it, can't even see sails on the horizon

I'm in the same boat as you are. Girls do comments like this all the time.
With that said, I'm really curious about the sisters' backstory (and incidentally Red's, while we're at it).

[Stormlight]

Red's comments are coming back to bite him later, guaranteed. It's only been a few seconds and Maren has almost already killed him.

Everybody's talking about how Raine called Maren attractive, but nobody's brought up the fact that she did it while asking if Red had ever been involved with her. Instead of potential Raine x Maren, this looks to me like someone getting to know where they stand in a newly altered social group. I think Raine's subtly getting clues about Red's ideas of beauty, past relationships, competition, etc, maybe without even realizing it.

(I could even go on about how Raine was hesitant to actually say what she was asking, or how she could be looking away to hide a blush, but that would probably be reading too much into it. )

[BadJoke]

Where do these MarenXRaine ships come from? That's a bit excessive. And I have nothing against shipping, But frankly this one will probably stay a phantasm.
All I see is a timid girl (and kind of socially awkward) asking a guy she's interested into if he ever had or has a relation with another girl. She finds Maren attractive? Because Maren is, no need to be gay to recognize beautiful people of the same gender as you (I'm a guy, straight to the core, and I can perfectly make the difference between an handsome man and an ugly one).
Also she says "I'd wondered why you've never shown any interest [for Maren]." before commenting Maren's beauty which means she's in fact comparing herself to Maren: "why did he choose me and not her? She's prettier than me..."
Which is totally in character, she has a low self-esteem, she tends to put herself down over the others. She grips her hair looking towards Maren not because she has an hidden love but because she is nervous, uncomfortable, sure that she doesn't stand a chance in comparison to the other girl.
(And that's a lot more cute than some hot lesbian Keidran/human action. Really.)

----

Considering how rigidly eastern-basitin society expects every basitin to conform to their assigned societal roles, my first thought is that it probably would vehemently condemn homosexuality.

In fact they are allowed to have sex only one week per year - chosen for reproduction.

So unless they use a strictly hetero definition of "sexual intercourse", and gay (or interspecies?) stuff doesn't count...

Or maybe they don't care and stay totally focused about their military duty and civil responsabilities. Like ancient Greeks. Rigid laws doesn't necessarily rhyme with anti-gay system.

I see no particular evidence suggesting how human and keidran societies view homosexuality or non-standard gender identities.
But human society doesn't see a truly horrible issue with using keidran slaves as sex toys. It's possible that there's some disapproval, but it's obviously nothing criminal. In fact, Kathrin's a sample of the current result/progress of a breeding program that deliberately selects for more-desirable sex toys.

Beware. We may not know what level of disapproval they may have towards homosexuality (if they have any) but sexual slavery practices aren't a guaranty of sexual freedom (pun!). At the time in America having a slave was totally normal, even cool, but being homosexual made you a monstrous creature ("of course you can rape your slave, as long has he is of different gender").
But between the two I suspect Keidrans to be homophobic. Humans seem to be open minded and advanced. When Natani didn't say the word "gay" once. For him there's no word for such relations but the comparison to a lower status fit for females (that's what he said, don't kill me). For what Nat said, we can see that Keidrans esteem virility and treat their women as lower (even Sythe said it: humans treat them better). Knowing that I doubt Keidrans treat well those who have such sexuality.

Of course all of this is nothing but conjecture, and must not be taken too seriously.

[hamers89]

Badjoke about what you said about the Greeks and rigidity. I know that atleast in Sparta warriors were highly encouraged to have relations of more intamate manners with their fellow warriors. This was to incarceration the sense of protecting others you care about. And after a battle if you didn't cry over your fallen brethren you were seen as a heartless person. So yes rigidity and strictness do not necessarily mean more conservative opinions.

[Bellhead]

Natani didn't say the word "gay" once. For him there's no word for such relations but the comparison to a lower status fit for females (that's what he said, don't kill me).

Uhh..

[BadJoke]

Natani didn't say the word "gay" once. For him there's no word for such relations but the comparison to a lower status fit for females (that's what he said, don't kill me).

Uhh..

Uhh.. what? (That's guy, not gay.)

Badjoke about what you said about the Greeks and rigidity. I know that atleast in Sparta warriors were highly encouraged to have relations of more intamate manners with their fellow warriors. This was to incarceration the sense of protecting others you care about. And after a battle if you didn't cry over your fallen brethren you were seen as a heartless person. So yes rigidity and strictness do not necessarily mean more conservative opinions.

I didn't took them for examples of conservatism but as example of discipline and warlike. Which they were.

[hamers89]

No I was agreeing with you and adding to it. You mentioned about ancient greeks being strict but not nessicarily were against these issues. I was expanding and going into more detail.

[Schrodinger]

Natani didn't say the word "gay" once. For him there's no word for such relations but the comparison to a lower status fit for females (that's what he said, don't kill me).

Uhh..

Uhh.. what? (That's guy, not gay.)

"Oh, whatever. I'll deal with the gay rumors later." Not dismissing your argument (been rather busy haven't read the backlog yet) but this is quite relevant.

[Chris]

Also she says "I'd wondered why you've never shown any interest [for Maren]." before commenting Maren's beauty which means she's in fact comparing herself to Maren: "why did he choose me and not her? She's prettier than me..."

That's certainly a possibility, but it's not the only way to interpret it, especially taking the extra page into account. Yes, it's possible for women to think of each other as attractive without it meaning they have any romantic or sexual interest, but it doesn't mean they can't have such an interest, either.

Which is totally in character, she has a low self-esteem, she tends to put herself down over the others. She grips her hair looking towards Maren not because she has an hidden love but because she is nervous, uncomfortable, sure that she doesn't stand a chance in comparison to the other girl.
(And that's a lot more cute than some hot lesbian Keidran/human action. Really.)

I think it's a bit unfair to characterize a MarenxRaine shipping as just "some hot lesbian Keidran/human action". I'd be extremely disappointed if that's the route Tom took (in fact that's my main concern with the possibility of RainexMaren, that the comic may be jumping the shark with it if it's not done well). It is possible to have a cute and well-written lesbian relationship without it just being an excuse for more T&A. We have a straight relationship with TracexFlora, a gay relationship with KeithxNatani, so why not a lesbian relationship with RainexMaren?

When Natani didn't say the word "gay" once.

"I'll deal with the gay rumors later." Natani even prefers to be thought of as gay than to be thought of as female.

EDIT:

Holy crap y'all are weird. I expected the posts following this comic to be about "What happened in Maren's past?" and "what exactly is/was the extent of Maren and Red's relationship" and "what does Red want it to be?".

I think those aren't getting asked because they're as answered as they can be. Red's pretty clear that he's never been in or ever been interested in a relationship with Maren, and there's nothing more exposed about Maren's past that we have any clue on (maybe my memory is failing me, but I don't know any "Tan-" character), so what can we speculate on that isn't just wild guessing? All we have here to think on is that Raine took an unexpected interest in Maren's looks (and vice-versa) for some reason.

[Bellhead]

Natani didn't say the word "gay" once. For him there's no word for such relations but the comparison to a lower status fit for females (that's what he said, don't kill me).

Uhh..

Uhh.. what? (That's guy, not gay.)

"Oh, whatever. I'll deal with the gay rumors later." Not dismissing your argument (been rather busy haven't read the backlog yet) but this is quite relevant.

Schro got it right. That's the link I meant to post. Something must be wrong with my clipboard or something...

[BadFoMo]

:Red just said that Maren can swing wildly from emotional to very distant and called her an Ice Queen. Further, in last page's discussion, it was noted that she has had an overall very uncaring view of the events that happen around her, just accepting them with little emotional attachment, at least after the original outburst. This is very noticeable with the destruction of the village. The entire village where she grew up in is slaughtered and her biggest concern is what to call herself now that her tavern is gone.

:Karen on the other hand, is extremely carefree and emotional, always on the search for something fun or interesting to do with extremely little care for what happens around her. In fact, it reaches the point where she is actively detached from reality, completely uncaring of the serious events happening around her. Again, the destruction of the village is the perfect example. She merely treats it as a fun adventure, actively goading on the Wolves.

To me, this all seems as if the sister's have gone through something so traumatic that they have instinctually distanced themselves from the happenings of the world to protect their own sanity. Combined with Maren and Red's (who I believe was also involved) hatred of Keidran, I think something truly awful must of happened when they were young, something involving Keidran.

I don't know why, but for some reason I would just love to see the back story of these two involve some sort of traumatic event.


Anyway, as for the Raine X Maren talk, I'm inclined to go with the "it's okay for people of the same gender to acknowledge that the other looks good and Raine was simply doing this for Maren and is wondering why [Database error] chose her over Maren who still looks Human" theories.


Speaking of theories, does anyone have any more involving "Tan"?

My theory (which has been pulled out of the usual place) is that like Red, Tan is just a nickname for another nameless individual. Maybe it's [Database error]'s sister who maliciously stole Maren's boyfriend. Or maybe it's a pet she was caring for which unfortunately met a tragic end.

[bejoja]

A rather short post, but I'd like to get my thoughts out there;
What if Tan isn't a persons name, but rather a place? Just a thought.

Edit: Tan seems kind of short for the name of a place, so maybe Red didn't finish saying it?

Edit 2: There's a village on the map called Tanmare! (Right of the tiger territory)

[BadJoke]

Also she says "I'd wondered why you've never shown any interest [for Maren]." before commenting Maren's beauty which means she's in fact comparing herself to Maren: "why did he choose me and not her? She's prettier than me..."

That's certainly a possibility, but it's not the only way to interpret it, especially taking the extra page into account. Yes, it's possible for women to think of each other as attractive without it meaning they have any romantic or sexual interest, but it doesn't mean they can't have such an interest, either.

Same could be said about the other way... "it's not the only way to interpret..." that's too easy.

Which is totally in character, she has a low self-esteem, she tends to put herself down over the others. She grips her hair looking towards Maren not because she has an hidden love but because she is nervous, uncomfortable, sure that she doesn't stand a chance in comparison to the other girl.
(And that's a lot more cute than some hot lesbian Keidran/human action. Really.)

I think it's a bit unfair to characterize a MarenxRaine shipping as just "some hot lesbian Keidran/human action".

Yeah but looking at those posts I doubt all those guys shipped this couple for a realistic and well-written lesbian relationship. (Anyway it won't happen so...)

[primalcaller ergos]

there are only 3 things I need to say here.

1. Only time will tell whether Raine's comment means she finds Maren aestetically attractive or sexually attractive, and only more time after that will show if the shipping is correct or not.
Keep in mind I think it would actually be quite interesting if Raine was bisexual or Lesbian, as I think it would be completely within tom's ability to write a realistic and insightful same sex relationship if he wanted to.

2. Only time will tell who or what this "tan" person/thing is, if we ever find out at all.

3. Attractive like an ice queen you say?







He might want to rethink that analogy. (Even though I am fully aware he meant it metaphorically and not literally)

You know, Im now expecting Karen to ask Raine if she got her keidran parts the same way as she got her own ears. (Technically she is half keidran due to magic, albeit indirectly, so the truthful answer would be along the lines of "in a way, yes")

Oh wait, i guess that four things....

-Ergos, remembering that there two-kinds of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't.-

[Bellhead]

3. Attractive like an ice queen you say?

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/ ... 5ps27x.jpg
http://th03.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2 ... 760eoq.jpg
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs51/f/2009/ ... iacano.jpg

He might want to rethink that analogy. (Even though I am fully aware he meant it metaphorically and not literally)

Relevant. "She's so cold, like a tombstone". Points if you recognize the ref before you click the link.